Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 <inaudible> Hey there, village
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Church, piggy basing you're here. And I'm sitting with pastor Alex and pastor Michael, and we are going through some sermon Q and a from June 27th, 2021, where he talks about practical evangelism for a confused world. And today is a doozy we're going to hit on, how do I get rid of Catholic guilt?
Speaker 2 00:00:26 You know, what's funny is that it's an actual psychological syndrome. And yeah, if you're, if you're a Catholic or you were Catholic, you know, this thing. So a little, a little background on my life, uh, 12 years of Catholic school, all boys Catholic high school, this is kind of like, kind of like bred into our family dynamics. My mom was raised Roman Catholic, and this is like really so much of like, I think her story. And so I, I, our family left the Catholic church though when I was four or five years old, I was very young. We went to a Presbyterian church, but grew up in Catholic school. So I saw all the ingredients of Catholic guilt being birthed and people, one of my gifts that my mom gave me actually was from a very young age, was a simple, pure gospel. And it just over and over and over again, repeated that into my brain, but it really meant something for her because she had emerged out of a works-based salvation.
Speaker 2 00:01:19 And so when I went to Catholic school, she actually gave me two big, like I would just say tools that helped me the first was that pure, simple gospel. That salvation is not by works, but it is through faith in Christ. And the second one she gave me is, um, is that the Bible is true. And even if Catholics, for example, in Catholic school use magisterium or tradition, minimally, we both agreed on this. So we had that as a common ground to debate on. So I would debate my, my priests back and forth left and right, and had him had a blast. But, uh,
Speaker 3 00:01:47 Okay. So you get like, there are,
Speaker 0 00:01:50 There are
Speaker 3 00:01:52 Like, if you listen to comedians, just talk, like I think every other comedian has some example of Catholic
Speaker 4 00:01:59 Ideas that they talk about.
Speaker 3 00:02:00 Like, this is a frequent topic of conversation. And so, uh, so here are some funny and sad examples of Catholic guilt. So from an
Speaker 4 00:02:09 Article 21 signs, you suffer from Catholic guilt. So
Speaker 3 00:02:13 Here's, here's some good examples. Uh, you've caught yourself mentally going over what you've eaten on holy days, trying to remember whether or not you ate meat. I can't even do the fish fries,
Speaker 4 00:02:28 The fish fries. Oh my gosh. Fish fries. So the fact that
Speaker 3 00:02:32 If I don't, if I don't eat at a fish fry, I would feel guilty for that. It's just like guilt for eating meat on it. Like it's crazy.
Speaker 2 00:02:42 I know. Right? Well, you can have fish. So fish, you want,
Speaker 3 00:02:45 Here's another example, you know, your wedding has to be in a church because the mere thought of any alternative would leave your parents screaming for a rosary.
Speaker 4 00:02:56 So that's good. All
Speaker 3 00:02:58 Right, then here's, uh, here's one more, you subconsciously get a little anxious when about to look or sorry,
Speaker 4 00:03:06 Hook up with someone because making love is for one relationship, all Nike, is that interesting? So, I mean, there's so much,
Speaker 2 00:03:16 And it is. Yeah. So I could just go on for days about this, but I remember my, um, my grandma and this is like part of it, like when we'd left the Catholic church and she would sit down with me and I'd be in like eighth or ninth grade and shit, we would debate about the Eucharist and about salvation. And, and she would say, but you don't have the Eucharist. And it's interesting to this day, like when I take communion, I might, I like there's this like thing in the back of my head, like, does it need to be transubstantiation and turn to the real body of work?
Speaker 4 00:03:43 Like there's voices in my head. And I'm like, I know that's not true, but
Speaker 2 00:03:46 It's like, it's, it's there. So what does Catholic guilt, a simple definition? Catholic guilt is the reported excess guilt felt by Catholics and especially those who have lapsed or who have left the Catholic church. And, uh, I'd love to give like a little bit of just framework. Cause I think Catholic guilt is a pretty obvious thing why it exists. So, uh, here's, here's one thing like when you have to face a priest, like every time you sin and then give vocabulary to what you've done, that's going to reinforce just the reality of life. And then you hope your priest is not judgmental. And it's preferable that he's behind a thing that you can see his face. Um, you go to Catholic school with nuns and priests. I'm just telling you, like, that'll do it. Like you have your shirt tucked out and they are like, incredible.
Speaker 2 00:04:32 So you actually get this, like if a priest walked by me, I still have this like reflex of am I, am I in dress code? Like, that's a, that's an interesting rule. Obsessed Catholic parents like must follow the rules, must follow the rules and, and a really strict Catholic parents, parents sometimes just a little bit differently. This adds to it. Um, implicit or explicit threats of hell regularly. Um, certain kinds of sins are going to lead you directly to how or the, if you have too much of one thing or was your, was your baptism legitimate? Have I taken communion? This is why my grandma was obsessed with the Eucharist because this was preventative for damnation to a degree. And so in her mind, like if you don't have that, what protection do you actually have
Speaker 4 00:05:22 For your soul? So you can see how all of this adds up. And so imagine
Speaker 2 00:05:26 You're an ex Catholic and you go to an evangelical church and they, they celebrate communion three times a year. And you're like,
Speaker 4 00:05:33 So Catholics love that. Bill is church because we have community every week. And they're like this, this grades, and it's actually satiated this Catholic guilt, which is, which is super hilarious. There is a simple remedy
Speaker 2 00:05:46 And the remedy. It's not like one of those pills you take. And then it's gone people who have Catholic guilt, but they deal with this pretty much, most of their life to a degree. Um, but the extent to whether or not it controls, you really comes down to whether or not you've learned to preach the gospel to yourself and to remind yourself of the truths of the gospel. So I wrote down a few thoughts here and I'll share them the true costs will dispels gospel, untruths that lead to Catholic guilt, for example, fear of divine rep retribution for the child of God. It is very normal Catholic guilt that you are afraid God is going to kind of come at you and sort of like a karma kind of way, continual guilt over sins, confessed and already forgiven. Like when you bring your sins to God, they are removed. As far as the east is from the west. You might have to deal with like consequences on earth, but God is not here punishing you, you and God are okay, but there's this continual guilt over, over sin shame for your past failures. Uh, shame is of, is very much a Catholic mechanism used by moms and dads to kind of keep people out of sin, which is a shame is not the best like actual motivator.
Speaker 4 00:06:55 It'll stop somebody from sending big ones, but it'll
Speaker 2 00:06:57 Ruin for their life. Um, the need for external perfection, um, is very real, particularly in works-based faiths and then finally the need for internal perfection. And, um, so we, we just see this, that, uh, all of these things are reflective of what, and I, I want you to hear me when I say this, because I think this is very important. Uh, there are things that an abusive dad would do. And so whenever you have any perversion of the gospel, uh, and you, you think to yourself, what would my father ever do this? Uh, he wouldn't
Speaker 3 00:07:33 Well, like it's, uh, so these are all identity questions, right? Like what are you finding your identity in? Well, apparently with this whole Catholic guilt system, it is keep finding your identity and how often you fall short and the, the multiple ways that you remain in brokenness, the multiple ways that you can't match up to what anybody's expectations are of you and the gospel gives a totally different.
Speaker 2 00:07:58 Yep. It's Y so right now I just speak for village church. We have a handful of former Catholics who have begun attending, and there is something about the gospel that breeds freedom and release to our soul. And right now there's, there just seems to be a, in our area and this time and place, there seems to be Catholics who are wanting a pure, simple gospel. Now, if I'm talking to a priest, um, no priest would ever want you to live in Catholic guilt, right. But the system and the structure are working around a works-based gospel, which inevitably makes your relationship with God performance-based and your relationship with your priest and your parents and your nuns and your priest.
Speaker 3 00:08:40 It's so interesting because the, the, there are kind of like two ways of escaping Catholic guilt. I have some Catholic friends of mine and some might opt for a true gospel, which would be the preferable way, but some actually opt for, uh, uh, false gospel of even like denying things like the resurrection, denying miracles saying that that stuff didn't happen because you know, really this is about you becoming a really loving person, right? So they, they they're so tired of the guilt, but the way that they get out of it, it's having to change the gospel. Absolutely. In some way, the real antidote is the simple, real, true, pure gospel. Yeah. Yeah. In on
Speaker 2 00:09:18 That. So, I mean, Catholic guilt goes away slowly. Um, but as you proclaim the gospel to yourself and your children and you share a pure gospel, um, it has a powerful impact. Every time, every day we wake up and we tell ourselves, I am not condemned by God. I am loved by God. These are not self-help mantras. These, this is what I want my child to wake up every day, when they look at me and to know I have no condemnation for them, I love them. I am for them. Um, I want to support them. I want to help them become who God's made them to be. I think when we start to understand that our heavenly father is not an abusive father, um, but the, what we want for our kids to that degree is probably more accurate to God's heart than maybe some of the systems that have, have grown up around that Catholic guilt. So, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:05 Well, thank you so much for explaining that. I think that all of us can be in prayer for our Catholic friends and also just continue to share that pure gospel with those who are in need of that. So that's all right. Well, thanks for tuning in this time. And we look forward to seeing you next time on sermon CUNY.
