Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Hey, welcome to village church, certainly Q and a pastor Michael, here with you. I'm in the studio with Vicky Basinger, our communications manager at village church. And in the month of June, 2021, I'm preaching through a series called practical evangelism. And the goal is to help you, our church share the gospel with your sphere of influence in a way that is preferably not offensive and annoying, but effective and fruitful. And so today our question Vicky, it's pretty emotional. Um, I can imagine somebody clicking on this because this is kind of their life and they would just love some counsel on this. Uh, the question is, what if my prayers for my spouse, my spouse is salvation. Aren't working. So you, you and I have a handful of friends in this category, but I think there's some assumptions about how people get to this situation circumstance. So from your experience, what are some different ways that you find that people are like married? Like I'm a Christian and I'm married to a non-Christian. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:00:59 Well, I think the first one is that you both start out as non-Christians and one of you comes to the faith later on let's could be after you have kids, it could come at any time, but then you find yourself not only married to non-Christian, but also navigating the waters of Christianity and alone without your best friend without, I mean, it can be a very difficult circumstance. Um, so prayers have to begin immediately for that. I would,
Speaker 1 00:01:23 Oh yeah. I mean, think about the experience as a non-Christian like you marry this man or woman and like, I married you and then you meet Jesus and you become somebody not fundamentally different, but like much more holy, slowly and progressively, um, your opinions and ideas start to shift and change because you have like a new authority. And I mean, imagine the trauma, it is for the non-Christian to fundamentally like have the person in front of them kind of feel like they're being lost, you know? Um, that's huge. And so if that person's going through a lot, not only do they need Jesus, but they're actually putting up with a lot of things that they didn't sign up for at some point, like I've talked to a handful of men, particularly whose wives have become Christians and they feel like kind of betrayed. And, um, and so it's interesting that Paul even has a category for this.
Speaker 1 00:02:12 I think people don't always understand why this happens, but he talks about the abandonment principle. So like, if you're a man or woman and you're married, you're non-Christian and they leave the marriage, then you're free. But the question is why would they leave? And, well, a lot of times the person is becoming somebody that they just never signed up for. And that's, that's a historical, it's a very real thing. Um, but you're right. Like, uh, that, that is a circumstance. We have watched person after person after person come to faith. Yeah. And at the same time, just as many people, like, I mean, I'm thinking of one marriage it's been 35 years and the wife is still praying for the husband. Yep. And there is zero interest. I mean, zero interest in the husband, the husband's having the kids were all Christians, nothing whatsoever. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I mean, that's, uh, like if I'm her, I'm like, yeah, like, do I just keep praying? Like, what would you say to somebody who says, look, listen, I pray for 35 years. God knows my heart. Yeah. I'm just done praying. I don't have the energy to pray anymore. What would you say?
Speaker 2 00:03:15 Well, honestly, I think that, uh, for that point it's not only just a matter of discipline, but also a matter of, you know, exasperations right. Well, God loves a desperate heart, right. He comes to us and meets us in these desperate moments and to just be real and vulnerable with the Lord, I think reaching a point of being that exhausted, um, both in your physical every day, like just that physical, everyday life that you're living in your home, um, the battles that you must be having, like truly just verbalizing it. I think a lot of the time, even in like, you know, mental health therapies, verbalizing or writing things down, um, it does make a difference. So really I would just encourage them to kind of keep going and push through that. And even if they talk it out with a counselor, with a pastor and just kinda pray together, have people pray for them, I think it would be highly important.
Speaker 1 00:04:00 Yeah. So once the one circumstance we just said is you both married as non-Christians, but then one of you comes to faith. Yeah. Um, do you find that's typically the man or the woman first?
Speaker 2 00:04:08 Usually I do find that is the woman that comes first, but not
Speaker 1 00:04:11 Always. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I'm trying to think of too many exceptions and I can't think of too many exceptions and it's usually around kids. Yeah. There's something about motherhood that kind of changes some dynamics there. Yes. It really does softens your heart and makes you realize how desperate you are, the needs you have. And that's good. So another one we talked about was a missionary marriage what's missionary.
Speaker 2 00:04:31 So, um, well I can save this person, right? So like, I am a Christian and I believe like, go through my example and you know, I'll bring him to church with me. I can, I can totally bring this person to Jesus. And, uh, it doesn't always work out that way. It
Speaker 1 00:04:45 Does not. There's I have the, the amount of students I have talked to and they're like, my parents did it or like, like I, it worked out for so-and-so and I'm like, I want to just write. And I want to just, I want to like sit them down for hours with men and women who are married to non-Christians and they did the missionary dating engagement and marriage, and it has been excruciating. It's interesting. It's adorable while you don't have kids mean, and, but the moment you have a child, like, what do you do when you have an agnostic opinion list? We'll say husband, and you have a committed, passionate follower of Christ as a wife. Now you're raising a kid and the mom is sending messages. And then the dad's like, you're your mom. And she just blow stuff up. Your mom believes in fairytales. Yeah. Your mom, whatever, you know, like, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because you become ferociously protective of these kids. Um, and then when you have this, the most influential voice in your, in their life, the father, yeah. Contradicting God in the word and you, I mean, it's, well,
Speaker 2 00:05:45 The conflict of bounds at that point, you know, it's
Speaker 1 00:05:48 Funny, you can always find somebody where it worked out. Okay. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 Every time. But in this case, it's the rarity and even, you know, in dating and marriage, you know, I have yet to see it personally work out. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:00 So you're sitting down with somebody let's just get emotional here for a moment and personal, you're sitting down with somebody they're two months away from their marriage. She's a Christian. He's not, what do you tell her to do?
Speaker 2 00:06:09 Right. Um, but, uh, I mean, truly it did actually have this situation happen. Um, and I did counsel this person to, you know, not go through with it that now is the time before their marriage has actually taken place. And, um, it, you know, thanks, but I'm good, you know, it'll be fine. And, you know, I really think that, you know, they they've been openhearted and, you know, receptive, but then after the marriage, that heart hardened even more so, um, so, you know, I think that as believers, we have the, um, we are called to be truthful. We are called to iron sharpens iron. We are like, we are called to help our brothers and sisters make right decisions and follow what God's word says. Um, and it's a hard, like you put yourself out there. I actually was cut out of this person's life for quite some time. Um, because the spouse found out that I said, Hey, don't get married. And it didn't really work out well, but it happens.
Speaker 1 00:07:05 And it's excruciating, it's, it's very painful. And, um, yeah, that, that sounds like a whole separate podcast question. Like the whole missionary marriage, everything like that. Okay. So the third category that we talked about was, um, when you have a spouse who, uh, comes to Christ, um, but what was the third category when somebody walks away? Yes. When somebody walks away from the faith. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. She
Speaker 2 00:07:31 Believers. One of them walks away and then what do you do? All right. So in this case, you know, you can try counseling, you can try, you know, prayer, you can try all these kinds of things, but if they've left the faith, they don't have the same set of values that you do anymore. Divorce becomes like, Hmm. You know, all right. At that point.
Speaker 1 00:07:49 Yeah. So w we, we know a couple of pastors who have walked away from the faith. Yeah. And, um, it is devastating for their wives. It is, it is interesting. Um, when they're in some kind of spiritual leadership, it's not uncommon that they actually leave the marriage out of complete guilt and shame. Like they, they deep down inside know it's true. Right. They know. But, um, there, there are like, this has been a challenge. So we have a whole bunch of young people who go to college. Uh, they're believers, they get married. Um, and then eventually they start becoming, what's called like a progressive Christian. They start lessening the authority of God's word, buying more into cultural norms rather than the authority of God's word. You see this tension and, and, uh, it is not uncommon. And we're going to see this more and more and more, you have a solid, um, usually a man or woman.
Speaker 1 00:08:36 Usually it's going to be a man who is rooted first and the woman is drawn away because it's so much compassion driven. Um, uh, I think we're just watching a whole generation like that. We're about to see Christians get married, and then one of the spouses will diverge, like this is going to be an impending problem. Yeah. But, um, but again, the spouse who is to deny the authority of God's word, then they start to become a Universalist. Everybody goes to heaven. God loves, everybody. Love is love. Then they become a talking point for liberal social media and in the name of Jesus. And so like, this is going to be a huge, huge issue. Um, and, um, we've known a handful of people and it's, it is excruciating horrible. It's almost easier to start off as a non Christians and become Christians than it is to start off as Christians and then have the marriage, the Christian marriage dismantled.
Speaker 2 00:09:22 Yeah. We've seen this pretty close to home as well. Um, and it's just been a horrible to watch, um, and just super painful for each person involved. Because again, you have that one person who's just like, yeah. You know, I'm going back to like, whether it's agnostic and like, you know, none of this makes sense to me anymore, but, you know, can you imagine being in the nonbelievers shoes and just sitting there and watching somebody fall away that you love? Yep.
Speaker 1 00:09:47 So I think, I think there is a big principle. I'll share two, two big principles, one, and you've already said it, which is pray, pray, pray, pray appropriately. Yeah. I understand. There's gonna be seasons long seasons of discouragement, probably seasons where you give up. Um, but persistence is of great value to God. And it changes you in the process. I think what prayer does for people, not only does it move the heart of God, um, but sometimes God waits because there's still a lot of work in us that needs to be done. I know that's hard for people to hear. Um, when you pray for somebody, it's hard to be bitter toward them. And so it's very easy to become bitter to somebody who just refuses the gospel. But as you pray for them, your heart remains continually tender to that person, which you need in marriage.
Speaker 1 00:10:26 Yeah. So pray number one. But number two, there's a principle from first Peter it's in chapter three verses one and two, and it's applied to wives here. We have found this principle though, to be applied in both directions. Anybody who's married to a non-Christian and I'll share the principle, then I read the, I'll read the text. The principle is don't be a jerk dummy. Okay. That's the principle. Yup. And so if you're a jerk anywhere, it makes the people around you. If you're a jerk and you represent Christ, it's like, well, why would I want to become a Christian? So Peter says, because he's dealing with these wives who, um, are married to, um, non-Christian men because they became Christians after they were married in most, all of these and their husbands still have not trusted. So, um, he says, likewise, wives be subject to your own husbands.
Speaker 1 00:11:13 So that even if some do not obey the word, they may be one without a word by the conduct of their wives. When they see your respectful and pure conduct. And here, here's what I found. Again, I understand this is written particularly toward women because in the first century, almost exclusively, we actually still see this today. When the husband becomes a Christian first, the whole family follows almost immediately. Wife, children, almost everybody. It's crazy. When the wife becomes a Christian first, it is a slow arduous process for everyone else. Why that is, it's like a spiritual, like, we'll call it a, um, mostly consistent law of the spiritual dynamics. Yeah. But, um, so I think this is written primary little women because women are primarily the ones in this circumstance, but this applies across the board. Yeah. Pray your face off and be super respectful. Like no man wants to be disrespected. No woman wants to be disrespected. And there's something about a bitter angry person who tries to change you. That makes you want to be nothing like they want you to be, do you like to be like forced into
Speaker 2 00:12:18 All the time? Hate change. I'm old. I'm set in my ways. Yes. Say that again. Is this recording?
Speaker 1 00:12:28 That's not your new mantra. I hate you. Oh, that sounds nice. All right. Well, I appreciate, um, you processing this, um, with me here and, uh, pray and don't be a jerk, but what did I say? Don't be, don't be a jerk dummy. Yes,
Speaker 3 00:12:40 It did include dummy. That's a nice little bit of salt at the end. Yeah. I thought I would season this one with salt. So
Speaker 1 00:12:46 I want to thank you. We've got more questions on village church, sermon Q and a particularly about this particular message. In fact, another one we're gonna, we're gonna answer is, uh, is it okay to evangelize on social media? Not in person. And then what is the spiritual gift of evangelism? Go back.
