Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:01 <inaudible> Hey there and
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Welcome to another episode of sermon Q and a I'm Vicki Basinger. And I'm sitting here with pastor Michael and pastor Alex, and we're talking through some questions from the sermon series on the tabernacle from August 1st, 2021. And today, Michael, I'm going to start with you, will we see the father or the spirit of the new earth?
Speaker 2 00:00:26 So if you're, if you're jumping into this and you're like, what's the new earth, right? So when we celebrate Easter, we celebrate the resurrection and there at the end of time, there will be, uh, the Bible says, and you have a new earth. That actually just means new skies. That's called the heavens also. So all of creation will be renewed. We'll get new bodies and that's kind of the forever place. So you don't go to heaven forever. You land on the new, on the new earth. And so will we see the father or the spirit? It's interesting that they didn't include the son in the question, because we know the sun is the physical manifestation of God. He is the physical image of God. So yes, you'll definitely see Jesus. You saw him on earth. In fact, in the old Testament, whenever God takes form or God takes flesh, um, it is Jesus. So it's called the angel of the Lord. And so, but what about the new earth? So, all right, Alex, is there ever a circumstance I'm gonna put you on the spot ready? I'm confident. You're going to be able to have a quick answer to this. Is there ever an example of the holy spirit being physically seen in the Bible?
Speaker 3 00:01:25 Yes. Okay. So, uh, the first one, uh, yes. All right. The first one for sure is at Jesus's baptism. So God tells John the Baptist that, uh, when you see Jesus, you'll actually see the spirit of God, descending like a dove and landing on him. And so John sees this thing, apparently nobody else can see it, but John is able to see some sort of call it a physical manifestation of God, the holy spirit there with Jesus. So that's one. And then, uh, another instance, his, uh, the
Speaker 2 00:02:00 Transfiguration was that one, the tracks to Pentecost.
Speaker 3 00:02:03 Yeah. So, so, okay. So, and, and acts chapter two Pentecost, uh, and they, the, the words that are used, the holy spirit comes and like, uh, lands on each individual. Right? And it, it looks like tongues of fire, and everybody can see this. Everybody who's looking around, uh, sees this physical manifestation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:02:21 W so here's what I find intriguing. So the father is spirit. The son is not spirit. The spirit is spirit. Angels are spirit. We have a spirit. Right, right. So there is this dimension, this realm that is a spirit realm that is very different than the physical realm. And God is manifest in both realms fully God, et cetera. So in also, when you think about angels, angels are able to do a couple of things, their spirit they're able to be somehow seen, they're able to be processed. There seems to be somehow in the spiritual realm, spiritual eyes, the ability to see things in that realm, you're in that realm. And what I think is really profound about the new earth is that the new earth is the convergence of heaven and earth. It's the convergence of the spiritual and physical and the most tangible way.
Speaker 2 00:03:10 So somehow we're given, uh, not just physical eyes to see, but spiritualizes right. And I don't know what it will look like. I don't know how it will manifest. Um, I know that right now we cannot see the father or the spirit. Um, I know that there have been manifestations, but that's not a normal thing for us now, but my gut tells me that when we get to the new earth, we're going to walk with Jesus. God will be physical man. Physically manifest is in Jesus, but there will be somehow the ability to communicate with and to observe. And now is the spirit of mist. Does this, can the spirit manifest itself as anything at once? Um, I have no idea. I'm not going to be going to surmise on that, but I do know that they are spirit. Uh, but they're also a different kind of spirit. Here's what I say that they're eternal angels are temporal. We are temporary, but it seems that when we are made in the image of God, part of that is the spiritual side of us. So it would seem really logical that we would have some kind of outline. Well,
Speaker 3 00:04:08 And what's interesting too, like in the book of revelation, which revelation is kind of like this peeling back of reality, so that you can see what is when John is in the throne room and when he sees pictures in heaven and sees these visions, uh, he's primarily seeing Jesus like Jesus as the, the primary figure that he sees. Uh, and we don't, uh, we don't really hear stories about him seeing the thought, we hear voices talking and that kind of stuff, but what he sees is Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:38 Yeah. And, and I, I wonder, so, so much of that is a glimpse into not the new earth,
Speaker 3 00:04:46 Right? Like, you don't know what's going on. It's a glimpse into like
Speaker 4 00:04:49 The heavenly heavenly realm right now.
Speaker 2 00:04:51 Right. So I, I mean, I wish I knew, I just know that everything's going to be shocking. It's going to be mind numbing, mind blowing. And we will know the spirit. We will know the spirit when we see the spirit or when we're near the spirit. Yeah. Um, and again, there are so many sub questions going through my brain right now, and it's gonna look like, how does that I'm going to stop otherwise I waste everyone's time, but, uh, I think, uh, you will, but here's another kind of conundrum here. The S the father is lifting high. The name of Jesus, the spirit is his objective is to make much of Jesus. There is something about the centrality of Jesus on the new earth. So there's a, this could be like a whole nother question, but you remember like, uh, I mean, Alex, you may kind of live this world, like in the two thousands, early two thousands, like 2003, 4, 5, 6, this like Jesus centered and then gospel centered. And then God centered centered ideology sort of like philosophy started making their way in. And, and so there's a group of people, particularly like in reformed Presbyterian, conservative circles, who say, why are you Jesus centered? We are God-centered. And there's an interesting approach to this because there is, you're not saved by the name of the father or the spirit you're saved by the name of Jesus. Right. And the father is elevating. The son is the king of Kings authority
Speaker 3 00:06:13 Over to him lifting him. And the spirit
Speaker 2 00:06:16 Is making much of Jesus and draws us to Jesus. And so we, we often probably emphasize as evangelicals Jesus more than the father, because that seems to be the Trinitarian paradigm
Speaker 3 00:06:30 And just the flow of the new Testament. Absolutely. It seems
Speaker 2 00:06:32 What happens. So it strikes me on the new earth that there will be a central city of Jesus if I'm wrong, happy to be wrong. Sure. Don't get me wrong. There'll be some quality of God. Okay. Okay. I'm sure. It just seems to be an emphasis
Speaker 3 00:06:46 In regular lilies on Jesus, on Jesus. So, I mean, you wrote down a little reference here and I just want to read it. So revelation 22, 4, it does refer to those in new Jerusalem who will see God's face
Speaker 2 00:06:59 Again. God is the father in the new Testament. God first
Speaker 3 00:07:03 And the father. Yeah. So that's, that's significant. What does that mean again, like we can only surmise, can you change his face?
Speaker 1 00:07:12 So many questions as usual? Well, thank you. Thank you guys for helping us process through that one. We have so many more to come on, serving Q and a go to village church, digital.org to see this one and more. We'll see you next time.
